Date: June 19, 2021 12:26 pm Title: Broken Traditions
I appreciate this fic!
I don’t think it was a terrible idea for the show to have Pam and Jim angst in the final season. But the execution was not great. The context you’ve added with this fic makes the whole thing flow much better than how it played out on screen.
I’ve been married for 15 years and no matter how much love you have for each other going in, you really do have to make the conscious decision to communicate with each other over and over again. It’s so easy to assume your thoughts and needs are obvious to the person who is sharing your life, but they really often are not. This story does a good job of demonstrating the high cost of not communicating, without making either Jim or Pam into the bad guy.
I had two young kids and a full-time job when this aired, so I really grokked Pam’s feelings of resentment. Every business trip my husband took in those days was a trial - it was so unfair when he’d be out for drinks 3 nights in a row in a new city under the guise of “networking,” and I’d be just barely holding things at the homefront down alone, again. But it seems like most people who haven’t been in that specific situation just thought Pam was being selfish and petulant. But you are a thousand percent right - Jim never went back and communicated to her how important this opportunity was to him after their initial decision to turn it down. I always felt like if he had just told her frankly and openly at the outset that he really needed this, she would have gotten on board. But he didn’t say that, and once communication breaks down it takes work to build it back up. You’ve captured that really well here.
Author's Response:
Hi Nectarines and thanks for reaching out with a review. I too, didn't have a problem with giving Pam and Jim an obstacle to overcome in season 9 - that's life after all, marriages even the best ones will have their hiccups but like you I wasn't sure the execution landed. But it was a sitcom with limited hours left to bring us that story. Like with a lot of what I write, I felt the need to to fill in the blanks (even though for a long time I didn't want to touch the angsty season 9 narrative).
I've been married coming up on 20 years myself. Plus I had to leave the place I spent my whole life and loved in a move so I too had some empathy for what Pam was going through - as it sounds like you did. Wow, you really knew what Pam was feeling.
But I think you got at what I saw was their true issue - communication breakdown. I'm not sure if you are only at chapter 1 or have completed the whole fic but I address that through out - that and the idea that marriage is work.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts. I love hearing from readers, especially when one of my stories has moved them.
1 [Report This]Date: March 21, 2021 11:19 am Title: Broken Traditions
I really like this concept, and I'm glad you're exploring it. Much as I was ready for this story to end, the ending is a little pat. You've done well here making these little wake-up call moments just that... little moments, not guaranteed to set them back on the path to where they want to be. They're in a serious conflict, and finding their way out of it isn't going to be easy.
I really liked the repurposing of their new tradition in Beets on The Trees and Christmas in their Hearts - partially just because I enjoyed it in the first place, and you did good work demonstrating in a subtle way how far off the same page they are in the different things Pam throwing out the yogurt lid signifies to each of them.
As someone who finds both of their actions in Season 9 a little OOC, I like the work you've done here grounding Pam's fear of change in specific events in their recent history... it adds some context to how Fancy New Beesly and her willingness to shake up their lives has gotten to this point.
This is pretty painful to read, given the job you've done drawing out how they keep enmeshing themselves even further in the trap they're caught in. I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with it.
Author's Response:
I guess you could say I've become a little obsessive over these yogurt lids - so much so that I'm tempted to buy then when I go grocery shopping and truth be told I abhor yogurt (except the frozen kind that with all the sugar added it no longer could be consider yogurt) so I'm glad you are enjoying it, even if it's painful to read.
I agree that there was something troublesome in how they acted in Season 9 or was it that we never really saw them in conflict before and let's face it no matter how much in love you are there's bound to be a little in any relationship - maybe we just weren't used to it. But I also feel like there was so much more to be said about what was happening there that needed to be explored.
You know just how many things I am working on- that this story (not my usual fluffy happy kind) rose to the top of my slush pile you know it had to get inside of me...I heard that song Gold and it just got into my gut. I know you're not a music guy (at least within the context of fics) but it's such a gorgeous song.
Thanks for the insights and reactions -love to get your reviews.
New chapter up very soon.
Thanks as always for all the support.
1 [Report This]Date: March 19, 2021 12:21 pm Title: Broken Traditions
This is really well done, Max! You have a real handle on all the little underlying issues they were having in season 9 and the pain Jim felt at seeing the lid in the trash was palpable.
"There was nothing left for him at Dunder Mifflin, aside from her. But they were married, had a family. He no longer needed to stay in a dead-end job just to be near her." - I think this is a very real thing that gets glossed over often. He *only* stayed at that job for her, and he was capable of so much more.
"Despite all her growth since he’d met her, she still had trouble looking at change as a positive thing." - This. I think seeing how big his 'little startup' was spooked her and she just wanted to keep the status quo after that first visit.
"How it seemed like everything they’d built up for themselves was crumbling as he borrowed bricks from the bedrock to build something she had no part in." - perfectly said.
"Last night, over dinner, the words finally spilled out, expelling from her body, dropping onto the pristine white table cloth like oil stains that might never come out." - Lovely!
Author's Response:
There is nothing I enjoy more in a review that hearing what stood out to the reader so you can imagine I am so touched by this review. And coming from you even more so since I am in awe by your writing and insights...even your review is a treasure to read.
Thank you also for the words of the encouragement as this story sparked - it really did give me the courage to go for it.
I am really glad I ran with this and that you are in agreement there was so much more to the story that wasn't addressed.
Thanks again for it all.
Date: March 19, 2021 04:21 am Title: Broken Traditions
Who, not whom, sorry. *facepalms*
Author's Response: You crack me up - but I also cringe when I typo in a review since you cannot go back and edit them.
1 [Report This]Date: March 19, 2021 04:20 am Title: Broken Traditions
Where to even start with this, so many great things.
You’ve captured a moment where two people whom love each other very much are just in different places, and how that can cause a fracture that can sometimes become something much greater and lead to a breakdown in a marriage.
I love (in a creative writing capacity, hate for JAM to be feeling sad) that you’ve shown their tiredness and resignation at the situation, too - especially Pam’s.
You know I love detail and I love the little details you’ve inserted in here, *especially* the yogurt lids!
And just the quality of the writing. Top, top notch, I really want to read more of this and how it unravels and resolves. Wonderful!
Author's Response:
Where to start with my response - thank you from the bottom of my heart. It means so much that you enjoyed this - even though they are sad - and you still can appreciate the story being told. As you know I usually write much fluffier fics so this departure had me a bit apprehensive.
I'm all about those yogurt lids! Funny thing is I abhor yogurt! Yuck - only way I eat it is when frozen (the kind that has so much sugar it's really ice cream and no longer anything even remotely like yogurt - like not the Pinkberry kind (did you have Pinkberry there?)
You say resolves as if you are sure...wink. It's not a long one 2-3 more chapters and they are mostly written so you'll see soon enough.
Thank you for the praise and support.
Cheers!
1 [Report This]Date: March 19, 2021 03:08 am Title: Broken Traditions
I have to admit I was on the edge of my seat throughout that scene in Paper Airplanes, so the idea that he might not have left his umbrella at all is slightly gut-wrenching 😱 But this is so good! I really like the idea of them keeping the yoghurt pot lids more generally, and then Jim saving one from the trash, and the line 'the fears got worse and lids kept getting thrown out' - oof. I think you've done such a great job of getting inside their heads and showing it from both their sides: I was definitely more sympathetic to Pam on the show, but am really feeling for Jim having read this. I'm also loving Jim's interaction with Cece here (and the knock knock joke maybe made me laugh more than it should). Really interested to see where this goes!
Author's Response:
Thanks so much- seems like the one line summary is getting folks right there and there are a lot more sympathies for Pam from show but I felt like there were two sides to this story, maybe one didn't get shown quite as much. I'm glad I was able to get you to see Jim's side a bit.
I'm glad you brought up the jokes so I can share that the one Cece tells Jim was a classic in my house that my son (a little kid at the time) also used to get wrong exactly that way when he told it. It still makes me laugh to this day thinking of it. But the knock knock jokes I looked up were making me laugh too. There are so many good ones I had to find the one that seemed most suitable for a three year old (although as I mention she'd laugh at anything from her dad).
Two maybe, three more chapters are planned and we'll get a little more perspective. Thanks again for the review - love to know what folks thinks.
Cheers!
1 [Report This]Date: March 18, 2021 04:31 pm Title: Broken Traditions
This is Pure Gold. This was incredible and I am hooked already.
I always sided a lil towards Pam during season 9 because somehow I had more sympathies for the mother putting her kids to bed alone than the father who is going around in limo and missing his daughter’s recital.
Loved how in depth your characters are and how well you wrote about their feelings and expressions.
Can’t wait for more !!
Author's Response:
Thank you Trish - I really appreciate that.
I really never though I'd write a Season 9 story - mine are usually more gushy love stories than angst-fests (with the exception of Copper Strands) but the songs got inside of me and pulled the words out of me. (wish Jim and Pam had heard them so it would pull the words out of them)
I really tried to put forth both perspectives because I can see things from both their sides and see how they both were at fault in some ways.
I appreciate your "glowing" review. Thanks so much.
1 [Report This]Date: March 18, 2021 04:20 pm Title: Broken Traditions
You really got to the essense of how they're not on the same page in this part of their lives. Jim trying to be successful for his family. Pam resenting the change and having to basically be a single mom. I really thought you hit the nail on the head when you had Pam recall some of the other times she'd tried to change and they hadn't worked out. There is of course one big exeption. She made a huge change by not marrying Roy. Now I'll grant you it took another year for the seeds planted by that change to bear fruit and it was a tough growing season in the meanwhile. But she has had some changes work for the better. However I think you're also right in her not remebering that change when she's so overwhelmed with everything else right now.
It was also the little things that showed how far apart they are. Like her not turning to him for help with her zipper. Great use of detail.
All in all an excellent chapter of a lot of introspection. Really looking forward to seeing where you take this.
Author's Response:
Ah Warrior, you have to know that Pam will realize that - it will be addressed in the next chapter.
Season 9 was one of those things I thought I'd never write about - even though I had very strong feelings about things that happened.
Now that I've written this piece I am so glad I did and I am thrilled you enjoyed it so far.
You can thank Ben Rector, Jake Isaac, India Arie and later Gary Clark and John Carney.
Thanks for your great review. Always happy to hear what your take and what you think.
Date: March 18, 2021 04:20 pm Title: Broken Traditions
Maxie, Maxie, Maxie or Goldie, Goldie, Goldie. My eyes already think I'm peeling onions from your What if the umbrella summary. I feel an ugly cry coming on.
Don't worry about Darryl's location; he's dodging Val or Val's boyfriend works as an excuse. I keep looking up distances from Scranton on Mapquest. Scranton is kinda centrally located to most places on the East Coast -- 2 to 3 hours and you can be anywhere (except the BBQ is suspect, I'm sure). I've commuted 90 minutes one way to work and have been known to drive two hours to try a new BBQ joint.
Spotify already thinks I'm pretty weird because the Ben Rector Love Like This is on no fewer than THREE playlists, multiple times on each playlists. I almost have it programmed to automatically invoke the repeat function whenever it recognizes Love Like This.
Friendly Tip. Buy Kimberly Clark stock on spec immediately
Author's Response:
You always crack me up Once!
In the episode this takes place he is in Scranton but in my version he is already spending a lot more time in Philly.
Such an awesome song. If I were 10 again, I'd be needing a new needle from the constant plays (although vinyl is back baby, my 15 year old has been building up his collection and goes to the vintage record store every weekend. We get to hear a lot of Dylan, Simon and Garfunkel, Paul Anka, Donovan out of his room - wow that was some tangent Angela). Hope you take a listen to Gold -not quite Pam and Jim (although based on interpretation it could be) but it is also hauntingly good. It got me writing a season 9 story that I never thought I would.
Thanks for the review -always love to hear from you.