News
Canon/Fanon and Whatnot
I just wanted to touch on a few of the topics being discussed in the comments on the previous news item.I honestly meant no harm with my comment about not wanting slash fic on here. I wasn't trying to exclude any specific genre of fic, it was a natural instinct for me to not want it, since it quicks me out. So I'm sorry about that, I didn't really think before I typed that out.
So we can go with one of two options:
1) We make this site strictly Pam and Jim
or
2) Under the current General category, we open up two sub categories, General Canon, for other canon pairings and General Non-Canon(or fanon, whichever makes more sense to everyone). That way, if you want to read it, you can, and if you don't, you just don't click on those categories. Because I do agree that it isn't fair to exclude certain genres, and that fanfic is a creative expression, and not everyone writes canon. I've read some pretty good non canon stuff myself, so I wouldn't want to discriminate against that.
I really want to try to cater to everyone, and keep everyone happy and comfortable about posting here.
Now the validations thing again.
I think the best point someone brought up about why we should have them validated, is to ensure they are properly rated and categorised. Plus we really do want to make this a quality fanfic site, but no, not to the point where heads would explode or anything like that. For the most part I think we like pretty much everything we read, and that there are only a handful of poorly written fics. What I would like to do though, if we get to the point where a fic does get rejected, that the author is at least offered advice on how to improve their work, and possibly try to hook them up with a good beta reader.
Or what we could do is rather than have each story wait for validation, which honestly, could become a pain, is just have the co admins go through the archive regularly and ensure that the fics are properly rated etc and meet the standards of the archive. I think that might be an easier alternative, just because I would personally hate to have to wait for my fic to be validated in order for people to read it. I don't want any authors turned off from wanting to post their story here.
Thanks again for all the feedback, there are obviously a few things I didn't think of, so this has been great!
I'll be contacting the people who offered to help in a non techie way today, to see if they are still willing to help. If you haven't put up your hand yet, and you want to help out with validating fics, let me know!!
--sicokitty on July 11, 2006 02:53 am 11 Comments
Comments
Also wanted to add that I don't see rejection being an issue for most of the members here thus far, because from past experience with their work it's obvious that they're a bunch of talented people who have their heads in the right place when trying to write for these characters!
- Pixel on July 11, 2006 12:08 pm
Re: Canon/Fanon, I vote for option 2. I think we need to be absolutely clear about which stories need to be put in those categories - maybe write a short news item. Re: validation, I prefer the second option as well. It'd make me crazy to wait for validation (even though that's what I'm doing anyway! LOL). Let the star ratings take care of any stories that are just bad; I like your suggestion of hooking authors up with beta readers for grammar + spelling issues.
- nomadshan on July 11, 2006 12:57 pm
Indeed, I think that the quality control aspect to it should have more to do with preventing people from posting things that have clearly not been edited, spellchecked, or with little resemblance to the characters on the show. I can only speak for myself, but there is certainly a huge gap between my likes and dislikes, and what I can appreciate as being appropriate, quality fiction that others might like. Pixel, your idea of review board certainly makes me of how scientific journals work. I'm not sure we would have the capacity to do so, but maybe we could say that before rejecting a story, the person who initially reviews the story has to pass it on to at least one other person to get their assessment. As for categorization with keywords and such, it is certainly not an exact science, but rechecking can only help insure accuracy. The age ratings though are not too big a deal in this community (although I always err on the side of caution when classifying) since we don't have a huge contingent of young readers, unlike other fandoms. Our writers also tend to be older and more experienced, which is why we get so much goodd fic, I think.
- Morning Angel on July 11, 2006 01:09 pm
Well, I realize the review board thing is ambitious, but I envisioned it more the way you said, Morning Angel. Not something formal, but more of a, "Hey, this one strikes me as wrong, what do you think?" kind of thing. It's so difficult because yeah, you don't want to discourage people making an honest effort to put out a creative endeavor, but on the other hand, there are places that are a free for all (again, ff.net) where they can put their stuff.
Of course, the rating system will certainly take care of that for itself. I don't know - hell, I'm the last person to be an elitist because I know I'm not perfect. I guess I'm just looking for a safe haven to read! :)
I do think it would be too unwieldy to try to review all stories before allowing them to be posted. Actually, now that I've blathered on, I think the rating system should be good enough to warn us off, as long as we're honest with our ratings and not fudging them to save anyone's feelings.
Of course, the rating system will certainly take care of that for itself. I don't know - hell, I'm the last person to be an elitist because I know I'm not perfect. I guess I'm just looking for a safe haven to read! :)
I do think it would be too unwieldy to try to review all stories before allowing them to be posted. Actually, now that I've blathered on, I think the rating system should be good enough to warn us off, as long as we're honest with our ratings and not fudging them to save anyone's feelings.
- Pixel on July 11, 2006 01:16 pm
Okay, well, but here's the thing. If you're going to open the site up to other pairings, dividing it into canon and non-canon is problematic for a number of reasons. 1) I'm not entirely sure how MUCH canon it takes to make a pairing a "canon relationship" under this system. Because there are some pairings I'd have trouble classifying - for instance, Ryan/Michael is totally canon (on Michael's side, at least), but they're not in a relationship of any kind. But that's pretty much the same as Jim and Pam - Jim's feelings for Pam are canon, but until Casino Night, any kind of actual physical relationship between them was non-canon. Dwight/Kelly would be similar - Kelly canonically kissed Dwight in Christmas Party, but they're not in a relationship. Is that canon or non-canon? 2) Some pairings might be non-canon right now, but could conceivably be canon in future seasons. Jim/Jan, for instance, or, I don't know, Roy/Angela. So if someone wrote a Jim/Jan story now, it'd be non-canon, but if Jim and Jan hooked up in season 3 it'd be canon, which means that stories could eventually be miscategorized, depending on what the show does. Which would be annoying.
(And just in terms of fandom vocab - if you label stories "general" that means non-pairing, so you shouldn't put pairings under the label "general". Also, "fanon" means "non-canon details so widely used in fanfiction that they are taken by many to be canonical", and so doesn't mean the same as "non-canon." Jim/Jan is a non-canon pairing - fanon is that Roy and Pam have bad sex. Etc.)
Here's my suggestion - and again, you totally can just make it a Jim/Pam site, if slash bothers you this much. Have a category called "Other Pairings", and then within that category, have sub-categories by pairing. (There's a Veronica Mars fic archive that also uses this format, and you can see how they categorize everything by pairing - http://vm-fic.com/index.php.) The site should have the ability to label all fic by pairing in the header information anyway, and no one is being forced to click on any fic they don't want to. I don't think anyone will be horribly traumatized by seeing "Ryan/Michael" in a header once or twice and not clicking through.
(And just in terms of fandom vocab - if you label stories "general" that means non-pairing, so you shouldn't put pairings under the label "general". Also, "fanon" means "non-canon details so widely used in fanfiction that they are taken by many to be canonical", and so doesn't mean the same as "non-canon." Jim/Jan is a non-canon pairing - fanon is that Roy and Pam have bad sex. Etc.)
Here's my suggestion - and again, you totally can just make it a Jim/Pam site, if slash bothers you this much. Have a category called "Other Pairings", and then within that category, have sub-categories by pairing. (There's a Veronica Mars fic archive that also uses this format, and you can see how they categorize everything by pairing - http://vm-fic.com/index.php.) The site should have the ability to label all fic by pairing in the header information anyway, and no one is being forced to click on any fic they don't want to. I don't think anyone will be horribly traumatized by seeing "Ryan/Michael" in a header once or twice and not clicking through.
- Annakovsky on July 11, 2006 07:10 pm
As far as the canon/fanon/non-canon debate goes, my vote would be not to exclude...I'd rather just categorize, so people can avoid the stuff they're not interested in. However, I second (third? fourth?) the idea of having an admin check for stuff with horrible grammar/proofing problems and getting a second opinion from another admin before going to the author with it. So far, the Office fandom doesn't seem to have as much a problem with that as other fandoms, but there's still the occasional unreadable mess that gets through, and I think we should (nicely) deal with that.
- on July 11, 2006 08:42 pm
Annakovsky, you're killing me!! Hehe, but I love it, so it's all good. You made more excellent points, and categorising by pairing sounds a lot more organised and less confusing for everyone as well.
Ok so maybe with Validations, we can have all stories automatically validate, because i'm worried it will be too timely and really, it would be criminal for certain authors to even wait for validation.
What we can do instead, is have the group of co-admins, who will oversee a couple categories each, and they should read everything that goes into their cats, check that it fits in the right place etc, the rating is appropriate and that it fits the standards for this archive. If we come accross a fic that doesn't fit the standards, the admin could leave a poor review and a little help comment. So once a fic gets like...maybe 2 or 3 poor reviews from admins, it gets removed. That sort of deals with it not haveing just one persons opinion involved, without going to the huge hassle of having a review board etc.
Ok so maybe with Validations, we can have all stories automatically validate, because i'm worried it will be too timely and really, it would be criminal for certain authors to even wait for validation.
What we can do instead, is have the group of co-admins, who will oversee a couple categories each, and they should read everything that goes into their cats, check that it fits in the right place etc, the rating is appropriate and that it fits the standards for this archive. If we come accross a fic that doesn't fit the standards, the admin could leave a poor review and a little help comment. So once a fic gets like...maybe 2 or 3 poor reviews from admins, it gets removed. That sort of deals with it not haveing just one persons opinion involved, without going to the huge hassle of having a review board etc.
- sicokitty on July 11, 2006 10:10 pm
I see that you've set up the "Other pairings" section, sicokitty. Cool. That should work easily enough.
- Morning Angel on July 11, 2006 11:36 pm
Whoo hoo! I'm apparently an admin! And yet, so confused about categorizing things. But more than happy to ding bad grammar!
- Pixel on July 12, 2006 12:01 am
Yea, we just need to add the pairings for that category in as sub categories.
Yes Pixel, I added in everyone who offered to help now. I think once we nail down the category summaries, it might be clearer where everything goes. Like Push, wouldn't go in General. It would probably fit into AU, because General is everything that isn't pairing related. But I think that's something we can work on in the summaries, so all authors know. :-)
Yes Pixel, I added in everyone who offered to help now. I think once we nail down the category summaries, it might be clearer where everything goes. Like Push, wouldn't go in General. It would probably fit into AU, because General is everything that isn't pairing related. But I think that's something we can work on in the summaries, so all authors know. :-)
- sicokitty on July 12, 2006 12:07 am
As far as "bad" stories being allowed on here, I agree that if volunteers help to "police" (I know, that's a horrible word to use) the site that would be better than just outright rejecting the stories. Because by my way of thinking, it's not about rejecting stories that I personally don't like, but rejecting stories where the grammar and structure or characterization is so poor and off base that it's painful to read. But, I do think that it shouldn't be based on one person's opinion but perhaps an ad-hoc review board of maybe 3-5 (if we have that many volunteers) and majority vote would decide if the story is rejected, returned for editing, or accepted.
I know that for myself, I don't even know for sure if I've categorized my stories correctly. For example, I always put them in the T category, but maybe because there's liquor involved and some steamy making out (but not actual sex) it should be under M? So if someone (an admin) needed to go through and recategorize stuff periodically, that would be ok with me.
Sorry this is rambling. But I know that part of our desire was to have a place where we could feel like any fic we click on would be a quality story so that we wouldn't have to wade through the wilds of places like FF.net to weed out the good stuff, and it defeats our purpose if we just accept anything at all!
Also, would it be out of line to invite or ask people like HoneyWheeler and Svilleficrecs, etc., if we can repost their stuff here or ask them to do it?