You are seriously trying to kill me.

Or get me fired...either or. ;)

That's okay, Pixel! Rumba deserves ribbons. :-)

Bear with us please, Annakovsky. This whole thing started and took off pretty quickly, and I think we're still working out a lot of this stuff. I would definitely agree that instead of just moving stuff we should maybe notify the author and let them move their own stuff into the proper category.

I'm confused by the categories quite often also, so I understand your frustration. It's just going to take a little while to get it all finalized and ironed out I think. Canon vs non-canon is the most confusing one to me.

I think stuff is still going to pop up in the "wrong" categories as long as people are categorizing their own stuff. I do think that the author is probably the best one to decide where their stuff belongs.

PS - to add: sico, I'm going to sit on my hands here until you tell me what to do next.

And, okay, hi guys. It's nice to see so much enthusiasm for the Office fandom! I'd like to make a few suggestions for the way the site is organized because I'm finding it really confusing as it is and I think the complexity/muddiness of some of the categories is going to make it trickier to use especially as time progresses. I'm really happy that this site has decided to be an archive for all fic, since the show itself is so ensemble-based and wide-ranging and full of variety. However the categories as they stand aren't parallel -- when one category is "Missing Moments" and one is "Angela/Gil" for instance you're working on different levels/with different types of labels (story type vs. pairing, in this case) so it makes it difficult to find stories. Having half a dozen categories for Jim/Pam fic and one for canon pairings (even though those can shift in the future, as the show goes on!) and one for non-canon pairings (with a somewhat overly exhaustive list) is also kind of overly complex -- and the less needlessly complex, the faster we can all find the fic, right? Right. :)

It might be helpful to look at how similar archives are set up. For instance, the Buffy fandom archive organization is easy to see here: http://archive.shriftweb.org/quicksearch.html

CATEGORY is the type of story. In this case it might be "Alternate Universe" (fic that diverges very specifically from canon in large ways -- like if Jim had never worked at Dunder Mifflin), "Futurefic" and so on. This includes ALL fic, regardless of pairing or non-pairing. THEN people can specificy characters and pairings and so forth. I know the fandom is small now so it seems easy to figure out where the existing fic fits, but an archive needs to be able to shift and grow as the fandom does, and as the show changes, and be organized as simply as possible. The current categories can also be confusing: what if a fic takes place partially in a scene from an episode, partially in a "missing moment" and partially after an episode has ended, then flashes back to pre-show? Which of the four current relevant categories would you place it in? What if it also went into the future? And limiting "Post-episode" to the most recent episode only means it will be constantly out of date as new episodes air.

I also think even trying to delineate between canon and non-canon is going to be a huge headache for everyone involved. We're smart people -- we can look at a fic and understand whether it's playing closer or farther from what's onscreen. Plus it's just asking for arguments -- for instance I could write you a whole essay on why I believe Roy/Angela is canon, based on what we've seen onscreen, and that's only one example of many. I don't think there's anything to lose by axing the whole canon vs. non-canon distinction.

I also see that some of the fic I've uploaded here has been moved into different categories without my consent, which really bothers me. Authors should have control of their own fic, should be allowed to categorize it as they see fit, and not come back to find it moved somewhere else. The very fact that some fic could apparently be a "Missing Moment" when it was originally in the non-canon pairing section of the site highlights that the current categorization system has some holes in it that need to be addressed.

As it stands, the current organization system (as well as these concerns about control over where fic is placed, etc) make me really loathe to post Pack Up Your Bags! or any of my other Jim/Pam fic here. I have a lot of ideas and suggestions about how this could be a really strong archive (and none of us would ever have to deal with fanfiction.net again!), so if you'd like to bounce them back and forth I'd be more than happy to e-mail with you, sicokitty or any of the other mods -- kyrafic@gmail.com. Let me know if you have any thoughts. Thanks for all your work on this.

kyrafic - I feel the need to extend my deepest apologies. It's obvious that I'm too much of a novice at this to be trusted, and I mean that sincerely. I honestly didn't mean any harm. Clearly we could certainly use some input.

Kyrafic - your Darryl/Michael and Katy/Kelly fics are back where you had them - so sorry. From here out, I'll always contact an author if I have a question about their tagging.

I agree that canon will be constantly changing, and it could quickly become a headache to keep up with it. I also agree that Post-Episode would be a problem for the same reason - time marches on! I understand why we have so many categories, and a fic can be tagged with multiple cats. It may help, though, to simplify things. I get the feeling sicokitty comes online later in the day (and overnight), so I'm holding off doing anything 'til then. It makes my stomach hurt to think I've pissed anyone off - certainly didn't mean to. Looking forward to resolving this simply.

By my way of thinking, Alternate Universe would be like the MASH/Office story - the characters we know in a completely foreign setting. We do need to get these clearly defined and more general, because otherwise you can argue that ANY fanfic is alternate universe, because the odds that any of it will actually happen on the show is slim. I say let's dump canon and non-canon, because those are somewhat covered by "Other Pairings" etc. And it should be enough of a warning to anyone if they don't want to read a Jim/Roy slash just to have those characters and an explicit warning.
I think that part of the reason for so many Jim/Pam only categories is that this was originally envisioned as a place for Jim/Pam fic. But it's been expanded and sicokitty has had to try to work all that out. It's not a job that I'd want on my shoulders, but I'm glad she's doing it!

I'll tell you one thing, this has already been a huge learning experience for me!

Kyrafic - yes it does.

How would you distinguish between Present and Episode-Related? ER is part of P, but P is not necessarily part of ER?

Good question -- that would be at the author's discretion, but typically Episode Related would be tied very specifically to a certain episode (occurs within or right afterward) while Present would be generally in the present timeframe of the show, and connected to more than one episode or no specific episode.

Wow, thanks for all the help, kyrafic and Annakovsky. I think the categories you came up with are perfect in that they are broad and easy to understand. I think if sicokitty is on board, then let's make all those changes. A lot of us are new to the world of fic in general (I know I am) and this site started as a project suggested by the folks on the TWoP Office board and has quickly (like, in the space of 72 hours) grown into something I'm not sure we all expected, so it has been very much a work in progress. Thank you for bearing with us.