10

WOW. Yeah, Emily is smart. She knows and we know that Jim could NEVER say that he's done with Pam. But she's in love. Poor Emily. I like her. But is she, like Karen and Katy before her, standing in the way of fate? Can't wait to see where this goes. Excellent.

Author's Response: I wouldn't say NEVER, but just not yet ;-) Thanks for reviewing, kgreene!

10

Loved this chapter - everything Jim's saying seems so believable when you write it, and yet outside of this story, I could never imagine it happening! (I don't know if that came across as a compliment or not, but it is, trust me!) Looking forward to the next one :)

Author's Response: That's a total compliment -- that I made you believe something that is otherwise unbelievable? Nice! Glad what Jim said made sense. Thanks for reviewing!

I have enjoyed this story so much. I think you are true to the characters in YOUR story. I know that it's hard for people to read Pam in a negative light or to have Jim think "bad" things about her ... But this is YOUR story and I think you are telling it w/ honesty and intergrity. Additionally this is a true fan fic story because you are telling the story of Jim and Pam through eyes of someone else yours and Emilys. 

Author's Response: God bless you Alamos! Truly, I appreciate this. I've been struggling today with the idea that somehow I'm not communicating what I wanted to with this story, but then a wise fanfic veteran advised me to write what I want to write and let the chips (and reviews) fall where they may. But I'm so glad that it makes sense to you and that you are enjoying it. So... thanks again.

I wanted to try this story out because I've realized that I can appreciate a lot of AU more than I thought I could. Sometimes, there were a few chapters I didn't love and almost didn't return to read. I think a lot of it had to do with some of this stuff may happen and I didn't want to hear that. However, I have returned and read every chapter so far, and I can't help but continue. I hate when stories hit realistic points, but I love it all at the same time.

Author's Response: Glad you came back bright_lights. I know some parts are hard to read, but hopefully it will be satisfying in the end.

9

Ok so I had every intention of starting this story and absolutely hating it, but sadly I cannot. It just feels too...cute? I mean Emily and Jim are really great together and I hate that, but I also think it's adorable. And Jim and Pam's breakup? Very realistic. Because I also thought that it would be hard to make that transition from friends to lovers.

So all I can really do, is wait for the premiere and hope the producers didn't listen to Jenna, because this is just way too believable. 

10

Also, I think I should proof read my posts before I hit submit. ;) My fingers tend to get all mixed up before my morning coffee.

Author's Response: Ah, everyone has typos from timee to timee ;-)

Wow, thanks for such a detailed response to my review!


I didn't mean to imply that by Jim and Pam having a "connection" that they became "open books" in Season 4 and had resolved all of their communication issues. Far from it. I just don't think that it's realistic and true to their characters to assume that they hadn't worked through *any* of these issues, or talked about their past *at all*.

I agree with you when you say that Jim's response to Pam's "transformation" and how he feels about himself is the cause of their break up. I just think that this Jim's response to her transformation is extreme. And I would argue how much has Pam really transformed? As I mentioned earlier, I don't feel that you've given us much about that from either Jim's or Pam's POV so far. How I feel about Pam has nothing to do with how much I like this story. Again, I don't think you've given us enough to substantiate what in my opinion is Jim's OOC reaction to the changes he's seeing in her. I go back to the paragraph I quoted back to you in my last review as an example of OOC Jim. That paragraph seems to show some bitterness/resentment from him that to me doesn't make sense. Did you mean for Jim to come across that way? If Jim felt that way, why did he bother getting together with Pam? And it seemed that he still felt that way strongly enough to bring it up in retrospect after the break-up.


In response to your question, when I said Emily and Karen are similar, yes, I meant that I thought that they were similar in personality. They both seemed to enjoy an easy banter with Jim. Jim liked Karen, he likes Emily. And both Emily and Karen seem/seemed pretty direct with asking Jim about his feelings for Pam as well as themselves. To me, the differences in their looks, occupation, location don't matter here, as you're showing how Jim is connecting with Emily on a personal level.


Thanks again for being so gracious with my "dissenting" opinions!

Author's Response: ShunUnshun, I’ve been trying really hard to stay on top of the reviews for this story because they help me think about how I’m doing it and if it feels right to me (and to others). So I do appreciate even “dissenting” opinions (although I don’t think your opinion is totally dissenting – I’ve gotten quite a few that agree with you). Anyway, Irnagree that it might be unlikely that Jim and Pam hadn’t worked through any of their issues, but I could see them glazing over some of the rougher ones in the glow of their new love. In the beginning of any relationship, people are much more likely to overlook potential stumbling blocks (as we can see with Emily in this story, and Karen in the past). So I don’t think it’s completely out of the realm of possibility that Jim and Pam have not truly delved into most of their problems after just a year, and I don’t think their apparent happiness together is proof that they did.

As for Pam’s transformation (and Jim’s response) – Yep, I think his reaction is a bit sudden and extreme. But we’re talking about a guy who literally left town almost immediately after dumping an “I love you” on Pam (and I certainly can’t take credit for that story, unfortunately). He tends to be kind of all or nothing in some ways. And I agree that I don’t think that Pam’s transformation is that extreme – mostly just clothes and hair and new friends. And maybe being willing to be a little more brave in her art/career. But I do think these things might be threatening to Jim. He loved Pam back when she was a mousy receptionist afraid to even dream at all. He loved her when she was shy and timid and still drawing staplers and coffee mugs. To see her blossom like that – I think a part of him would be really proud and supportive, but a part (a part that would be really hard for even him to acknowledge) would be threatened and maybe a little jealous. For example, I point to his reaction in Local Ad. He was totally proud of her, glad to see her succeed, but I’m not sure he loved having Pam chose staying at work over coming home with him. We want Jim to be the perfect, supportive boyfriend and he might not be all the time. Sometimes he might be petty or selfish. Plus, we saw Jim struggling a lot in Season 4 with his career . . . I don’t think that stopped just because he made a big sale on the golf course. His insecurities about himself were festering, too.

I think, if anything, if you’re not buying this scenario it’s because my writing has failed my concept, not so much that anything that Jim is doing is that out of character, per se. I probably haven’t explained my thought process enough, and that’s my fault. But I think in the hands of a more gifted writer, these arguments would hold water.

As I recently emailed a friend from the boards: I think we as Jam fans are used to seeing fic where Jim and Pam’s sides of the stories are equally and fairly dealt with. In this story, I’m purposefully only dealing with Jim’s side of it. And Jim – still relatively fresh from the break up – would probably have a tendency to justify, make excuses, try to make himself feel better about how he handled things. I think with time, he’d realize he probably overreacted and have some regrets and some perspective. But for now he’s just trying to move on. .

This is all just personal opinion and I can still see your points, even though I might disagree. The only thing in your review that I actually have issue with is the Emily/Karen comparison. It seems like you’re implying that any woman who has chemistry/banter with Jim, any woman who might be a little more direct than Pam, is somehow a rebound, will somehow be just a Pam replacement. Isn’t it possible that there is more than one person for each of us, that maybe he could be in a happy, healthy relationship with someone else? Obviously it wasn’t Karen … but someone? I guess that is one of the whole reasons I started writing this story. If you don’t care for Emily, that’s totally fine … but I don’t think she’s like Karen just because she comes after Pam.

Oh, how I wish there were a thread where we could discuss these kinds of “what ifs” – they’re not really appropriate for the Pam and Jim thread (because it’s so AU), but it’s really hard to get all my thoughts out in this response format. Thanks for humoring me and being willing to read my lengthy responses…rn

Based on the Jim/Pam characterizations and interactions the Office writers have given us during Season 4, I was wondering if a Jim/Pam break-up story could be written without taking one (or both) of them out of character. I don't think you’re pulling it off with this story.

It seems to me that this Jim is OOC. Right from the start he allows his brother to talk him out of proposing to Pam before she goes to Pratt. Then, as he recalls the three months Pam was at Pratt, to me he comes off as whiny and petulant. On the show it was clear that Jim was very supportive of Pam going to Pratt. It seems a bit unbelievable that Jim wouldn’t expect Pam to very busy there. And why wouldn’t she make new friends? This Jim also seems a bit paranoid as he recalls Pam keeping in touch with said friends and what they could be discussing. To me it came off as a bit more than Jim showing some insecurity that he was “just a paper salesman.”

I guess the part that really clinched it for me was later in the story: “While I was in Stamford and then when I was back in Scranton and with Karen, people think Pam went through this huge transformation but the truth is, she was only slightly more honest with herself than she had been before. Getting her beer order right or changing a flat tire was great, but she still faked a friendship with Karen, got back together with Roy, only confessed a part of what she was feeling to me. I don’t think she really became Fancy New Beesly until she was by herself, away from Scranton, away from me.” Wow. Does this Jim really know Pam at all? From what we’ve seen on the show, I don’t see Jim thinking this. At all. Very OOC in my opinion.

Obviously we don’t see/hear much from Pam in this story since it’s told from Jim’s POV. Boy do I feel for her. She didn’t seem to do anything wrong here. She made some changes to her clothes and hair, made some new friends and took a job she would actually enjoy. She seemed truly bewildered to find the ring and wonder why Jim still hadn’t proposed. I just don’t buy that these two don’t communicate. The Office writers took a lot of time to show the viewers the “connection” these two have. How do you go from Jim buying a ring the week after they started dating to this? In this story it seems to me that this Jim was having more than just doubts. To me he came off as petulant, insecure, suspicious, and more than a bit self-absorbed. To me, OOC from how he is/was portrayed on the show.

The other aspect of this story that I find a bit unbelievable is that Jim takes up with Emily so soon after his break-up with Pam. To me it seems like Emily’s not that much different than Karen other than Emily knowing Jim’s baggage with Pam sooner and in more detail. The whole story with Jim/Emily screams rebound to me.

Maybe I’m just not getting what’s going on here. I read a few of the reviews for this story and was a bit puzzled at how easily some accepted the break-up and Jim’s new relationship. To me, I really haven’t seen enough to justify this Jim’s change of heart with Pam and remain consistent with the show’s characterization of him. Maybe you just haven’t gotten to it yet in this story. And, with the obvious connection that Pam/Jim have on the show, it seems like a stretch in this story that Jim would assume that Pam was growing away from him so much in such a short period of time. She was a two-hour drive away and was gone for only three months. It’s not like she was going to Europe for two years or something. And again I just don’t buy that these two don’t communicate or that they didn’t talk about what happened in the year or so before they started dating.

I give you credit for posting this story. It seems to have created quite a discussion, just based on the number of reviews you’ve gotten alone! I wouldn’t give it a low rating at all. I think you just have to forget about what you know about Jim/Pam from watching the show for this to be a believable story. I am curious how you will wrap this up, and doubly curious how you might tell this from Pam’s POV.

Author's Response: ShunUnshun, thanks so much for your feedback on this story. I'm always glad to hear what works and what doesn't work for people, and obviously this one isn't working for you. I totally respect your right to disagree, but what it comes down to is our personal opinions of Jim and Pam and their relationship. First off I will say that there are a few concessions that I made to believability for the sake of the premise of this story. It is an AU, so I cut myself a little bit of slack. One is that Jim didn't propose immediately after Goodbye Toby. Personally, I think he would have based on what we saw in season 4. But for the purposes of this story I needed to think of what might have delayed him. I don't think it's that unrealistic for him to not want Pam to have to think about a wedding or anything else while she's going off on a huge new adventure for her. Going to school in New York City for her art is probably the bravest thing she's ever done (and for me, that includes the beach speech), and I could see Jim just wanting to wait until she came back to start that chapter of their life together. Maybe I didn't express that well, but that was my thought process.

I also think that the show has never truly shown us that Jim and Pam absolutely HAVE gotten over their communication issues. Sure, their relationship in season 4 seemed very happy and rosy, but what new relationship isn't? They've always had a strong "connection" but that doesn't necessarily mean that they've hashed out the past or are completely honest with each other about what they want. I think to assume that they are all of a sudden open books with each other after years of hiding feelings and keeping secrets is a bit of a stretch. Plus, again this is an AU -- we as viewers haven't seen what happens with Pam at Pratt yet. I'm taking that story line in a drastic arc, one that some people might not find believable. But I could argue that you take a girl who has made concessions about what she wants for most of her life, who hasn't been brave or honest (quoting Gil there), who is just beginning to discover who she is, and you plop her down in the biggest city in the world with new friends and new experiences, and I'd argue that she could go through a HUGE transformation in a very short amount of time. I'm not saying that her transformation was the reason for their breakup, though. I'm saying that Jim's response to her transformation and what it means, how he feels about himself, is the cause of their break up.

I hate to say this because I feel like a broken record, but I think whether people like this story or not comes down to how they feel about Pam. Do you think she was brave and went through a huge change in season 3? Or do you think she was just starting to become fancy new Beesly? Obviously, I'm of the second camp. There were more changes for her in season 4, but I don't think we've seen anything yet.

Re: how soon Jim starts dating Emily -- let me just say this. I have a good friend whose husband died suddenly and tragically and she was seeing someone fairly seriously within a year. If Jim was ready for the breakup and made peace with it, I don't think 6 months is so quick. And I haven't said that he hasn't dated anyone else in that time, actually. But again, that's just my opinion. I guess I'm tired of seeing Jim portrayed as a sadsack mope and I wanted to write a story where he bounces back.

Also, just for my curiosity: how is Emily like Karen? Do you see them as being similar in personality?

Again, I'm okay with people not buying this premise (or not wanting to read about it), but I just want to remind you (and others) that everyone looks at Jim and Pam's relationship differently. I've never seen any real evidence that they've solved some of their past problems (although they may have -- I just haven't seen it onscreen), and that is what led me to want to write this story. Thanks again for your feedback. Sorry you're not buying this one.

I like Emily. And I like the story. :-)

Author's Response: Thanks berrycakefan! I appreciate it.

Ugh the only thing I don't like about this is I really feel like the writers will pull some shenanigans like this. I think that might be a compliment? If that's not apparent then yeah I compared you with the office writers (if the office was on HBO, probably)

ANYWAY yeah. I like Emily. I wish I was her a little. 

OK, so last night I wrote you a review of War and Peace dimensions.  One of the longest reviews I have ever written.  And then the damn server crapped out on my submit.  Grrrrr!

I am loving this story, Wendolf.  Everything is so spot on that it's about impossible to pick out favorite passages.  I would end up just reposting the whole chapter here.

I love Jim's explanation of the hits his confidence took in the early part of his relationship with Pam.  Really like Emily, although I must say I hope at some point she exposes a few chinks in the armor, as it were.  If she continues in this vein all along, she'll be beatified along with Mother Theresa.

I am ready for he heat, though!  Bring it on!

Ach. You have made their breakup so believable!  I only hope that the show's writers arent reading this story.  

Author's Response: Yeah, I doubt they'll be calling me to join the writing team (darn). But I'm glad it seems believable. Thanks so much for reading and reviewing, amalia!