Date: August 21, 2010 11:14 am Title: Why can't we give love one more chance?
Wow. This is just wonderful Ivy. There have been a lot of first date fics but the way you've paced this makes it feel fresh again. I love the fact that Jim saw her over the summer and that he wanted to tell her - he knows he doesn't have to but he wants to - just lovely.
It's so clear how much they've learnt from the past year - whereas previously their conversation really would have consisted of 'umm... ahh' (love them lightening the mood by thinking of what they'd have said to each other btw!), now they both seem to want to work through the past and move forward.
Really intrigued as to where this goes next. You've really captured both their voices and demeanour - love it. :)
Author's Response: Thank you so much. I kind of hate the writers for not showing us what must have been a major turning point in the Jim and Pam story, but I also love stories that leave us imagining how things could have gone. Considering everywhere they had been and have gone since then, all the changes, I've been trying to capture the swirl of emotions I think must have been going on that night, so I'm so glad you think it's working. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me so much. Thank you.
10 [Report This]Date: August 21, 2010 10:36 am Title: A boy on the bridge, standing over the reservoir
I am so much enjoying these totally different ideas you are coming up with. That Jim saw Pam over the summer and HID from her. His family know "enough" not "everything." I think your phrasing and dialogue are impeccable in this one, ivy. I really, REALLY think this is the best thing you've posted here.
You keep asking for input so I'll throw in my two cents. I am really hoping you DON'T have Pam and Jim end up in bed on this first date. I think the way you write sex would feel off for the way you're writing this story.
Author's Response: Thanks, VB! I promise, I'll do my best to keep everything in tune with the tone of the story.
Date: August 20, 2010 06:39 am Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
I must apologize for not reviewing sooner. I will try to be more consistent. Another chapter that I loved. It's not easy to admit and understand that sometimes the road to hapiness is what is needed to appreciate what you have. I love that you did that here.
Date: August 19, 2010 10:57 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
trés beau..et il sera plus beau si ils ne portent pas ce vetement mouillé en le suivant chapitre ;P..
10 [Report This]Date: August 19, 2010 06:32 pm Title: Why can't we give love one more chance?
i'm finally getting a chance to catch up on my fic reading (stupid work and real life) and this story is a real treat. first date fics are my favorite! more please!
Author's Response: Happy to have you along for the ride!
10 [Report This]Date: August 18, 2010 09:17 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
Well we were talking about reviews dropping and how much that freaks us out and it suddenly occurred to me how much of a hypocrite I am. I'm such a slack reviewer - I'll read something, get hooked, look forward to it being updated...and then never review. Shame on me. Shame. On. Me.
I have to say what I've loved most about this is its complex simplicity. Now that's a horrible oxymoron, so let me explain: A lot of first date fics try to do so much - they have them making out, having sex, discussing everything that's been going on, maybe crying about it and it's all sappy sweet and they're together and happy.
Now I love that as much as the next person but what you've done here is really quite unique. Because yes there is making out, they're going over the past, but I'm not sure whether it's because they're in a park or just my own imagination, but it feels so calm. Not frenzied or deadly serious. They're taking things slow, they're getting things out in the open and they're being quite brutally honest. (I love that explanation of Jim and Karen being fuck buddies by the way, I never thought of it like that before but it sounds so plausible). But it's all done in such a tranquil atmosphere that I think reflects how they really would be feeling. Because they know that after everything, they're good now so they're not scared to really talk for once.
Anyway, long story long, that's been something I've found so striking about this. It's a simple conversation but there's so much depth behind it. Deceptively simple.
And then they just decide "you know what? It sucked, but it's over. Let's just move on." I think that's exactly the idea the show had as well so this sentiment is so very realistic. And this: When he thinks about it, he knows he wouldn’t have had it any other way. Because tonight, right now, lying next to her, is just about perfect....So sweet.
Oh and random trivia - I watched La Vie En Rose the other week and kept thinking how 'Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien' is such a beautiful song and idea to live by.
(Hope this long review makes up for my lack of previous reviews! :S)
Author's Response: Thanks so much, Jess! I'm so glad it feels real and fitting to you. I've never thought of Pam and Jim as characters who take themselves too seriously. I never imagined there would be screaming and drama and 'how could you's.'
I think the past will still come up sometimes down the road. I think wounds take a long time to heal. But I also think there's a lot of beauty in deciding to let the healing happen, even if it's going to be a process.
Love hearing from you. Thank you again.
10 [Report This]Date: August 18, 2010 08:06 am Title: Why can't we give love one more chance?
Hey Ivy, I just noticed your reply to my comment and my initial response echo's VB's - go with your vision, I don't want to be getting in the way of your vision for this wonderful story, but now that you mention it maybe you could add in what you replied to VB - the taking advantage part. But if it doesn't fit in with what you've set out to do, ignore my ramblings and I apologize for sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong. Either way, I am so looking forward to where you take the rest of your wonderful story. :) I'm not sure why there aren't more reviews for this and all of the other stories on here lately. We should start some sort of you must review when you read campaign haha! And I also want to see how I can help you get a ribbon on this story. Okay, I'll shut my yapper and move along.
Author's Response: Thanks, Dee! The good thing about the story is that it could work with just one more chapter or it could work with ten more (there won't be ten more). In terms of the vision, like I said, there are a few things I know will and will not happen. But I'm open to suggestion. I'm going to give it some thought and see if I can work in the taking advantage thing in a way that feels natural. If I can do it, it'll be there. If not, it won't be. I think it makes sense.
And please never worry about thinking you're saying too much. I want to know what you think. Thank you for taking the time.
Date: August 17, 2010 04:26 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
Ivy, in one of your replies to a review, you asked readers to give ideas of things for Jim & Pam to do or issues for them to address. I'm enjoying this story so much PRECISELY BECAUSE you're taking it in a very different direction than most first date fics. I think you should continue exactly as you originally planned. I want to see your vision of this momentous night!
Author's Response: Thanks, VB. I'm trying to walk the line of keeping the story in my vision but also giving the people what they want, so readers will be able to enjoy it. Like I said, there are some things that are pretty set, but if someone were to say "I want to see them address the fact that Pam sort took advantage of Jim before he went to Stamford" or "I'd like them to go to the movies," I would see if I could include that in a way that accorded with the tone and plot, and if I could make it jibe, I'd put it in. Certain things aren't going to happen, though I won't say what those are. And the last chapter is pretty much already written, in a way that allows the story to end with just one more, or allows for several more chapters. Thank you for your faith in me!
Date: August 16, 2010 11:10 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
Ah, ivy, no disappointment in this quarter! I was away for the weekend and using my son's Droid to navigate the web for the first time. Pretty cool little device, I must say, but it was DAMN annoying trying to figure out how to LOG IN to any websites so I could do things like check mail and leave reviews. Pesky little back button instead of the enter button!
So, what did I like about this chapter?
- Great, great control of imagery. Like this little passage:
…He reaches out with one arm and a question in his eyes and she nods, almost imperceptibly. He moves closer and wraps the extended arm around her shoulders… - I love that their regrets are not all about each other. Especially this (bolding mine):
He thinks about Lisa, whose number he’d thrown away, and Amy, Emily and oh crap, what was her name? He’d given all of them some version of “this was fun, but I have an early conference call/basketball game/doctor’s appointment.” There were others, who deserved to at least have their names remembered. None of them has deserved to be road kill on the Jim and Pam Highway of Heartache. - I really like that the first regrets that come to Pam's mind are related to her life with Roy, not the missed chances with Jim.
- This line: As good as the fantasies were, the reality would have been messy and uncertain and wracked with guilt.
- It's a petty thing but I like that when you use the word smirk, it seems appropriate. The word has a snarky aspect to it and is all too often on this site misused in place of chuckled in places where the author is not implying any kind of sarcasm.
I am thoroughly enjoying this story. Please continue!
Author's Response: Oh, the lovely tech devices on which we've all come to rely... Thank you for your detailed thoughts. I really appreciated knowing what you liked (and if there's something you don't, please tell me that as well). Deciding whether the regrets should really be regrets or just history from which to learn was a challenge. But I thought of my life... jobs that have deferred my career but through which I've met amazing friends and learned about appreciating hard work... a relationship that went horribly sour, but if I'd left it sooner, I wouldn't have been able to recognize that I wasn't getting what I deserved when someone else gave it to me (and someone else has now been my someone for a decade)... I'm a big believer in every experience having value to it, even if it wasn't a happy one. Oh, and I think in certain situations, "smirk" is perfect for Jim and Pam. You're right, it's snarky but not mean-spirited. I love it, partly because I'm such a snark myself. Thank you for your valued thoughts!
Date: August 16, 2010 10:51 pm Title: I've put in far too many years to let this pass us by
There are so many things I love about this chapter.
- The foreshadowing of their future, from tomorrow's run-in with Karen to the indeterminate future where they run into Roy and they fight "fair" and "for each other."
- The idea that what really pisses Jim off on his return is that Pam has grown and is seemingly ok rather than her rejecting him in May.
- Your portrayal of Jim as still uncertain about what's happening here. I LOVE that you don't have him all pie-eyed and optimistic. I think this is my favorite passage in the chapter because it's so achingly clear-eyed and realistic:
He doesn’t need the right words. The time of having to figure out exactly how to say exactly the right thing is over. She doesn’t need that from him.
And, well, if she does, it’s best he knows it now. So he can let go for real.
Author's Response: Thanks! I always thought Jim would have been pretty nervous. I think both he and Pam were having bursts of confidence, but underneath there was a lot of anxiety. It wasn't exactly like this night was the last chance, but there was probably a lot being put on the line. That's why I really wish we'd been able to see it, because this was going to be a turning point -- the time to dance around things was done: either they had to decide they weren't going to be a couple, or they had to decide they were going to work toward being one. And Jim had just gotten out of a relationship that was all about saying the right thing, looking the right way, following the rules... it didn't make him happy. (And ultimately, it didn't seem to make Karen happy either; she was much more relaxed after she'd married Dan). I feel like a lot of this night is Jim and Pam proving to themselves that they really do still know each other, that as far away as they've both seemed, it hasn't really been that far.
10 [Report This]Date: August 16, 2010 02:26 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
I loved every single thing about this chapter. The what if conversation was really in character and so believable I could actually imagine that's what they would have said. (you know, if they weren't fictional characters, lol)
This is just perfectly sweet:
“So what now?” he asks.
She smiles lightly and mimics his earlier words. “I don’t know. I guess… we start dating?”
He laughs and pinches the flesh at her waist.
“It’s an okay start, though,” she says, “right?”
When he thinks about it, he knows he wouldn’t have had it any other way. Because tonight, right now, lying next to her, is just about perfect.
“Yeah,” he replies, moving his thumb over the soft fabric of her blouse. “It’s okay.”
Love it and can't wait for more and I really hope this isn't nearing the end just yet!
Author's Response: Wait, they're fictional?! Haha. Thank you so much!
In truth, I'm not sure how much longer the story will go. It seems to be meriting less response of late and I fear I've done something to let people down. I'm prepared to close it with the next chapter but I'm also open to keeping it going. If I keep it going, however, I could use some suggestions of things you'd like to see them do/address. I do know how it's going to end, so some things are set, but I'll gladly take input for possible interim chapters.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I wholly appreciate it.
Date: August 16, 2010 01:15 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
I am so enjoying this story. I love a detailed account of what that night might have been like. I hope they is a lot more.
Author's Response: Thank you, I'm so glad. I wish we had gotten to see their first date on screen. It seems wrong that such a very critical turning point happened off screen. Is it wrong that I hope there was some secret first date scene filmed and it will be a bonus on the complete series DVD once the show ends? Along with what's really in the Christmas card and whether Jim actually said goodbye before he left. Thank you so much for your response!
Date: August 15, 2010 11:41 pm Title: Aujourd'hui, ca commence avec toi
This was great. It was nice how they both understood that although what happened that May was tough, it kinda sorta had to happen for them to be where they are now.
I don't really have much else to say because I
Author's Response: ...must escape the attack of killer butterflies? ;-) Thank you for not being upset with me for not having them both regret the past. I know it might have been an unpopular choice, but I do think they needed to overcome challenges in order for their paths to cross at the right place. And thank you, so much, for taking the time to respond. I appreciate you!
Date: August 12, 2010 09:37 pm Title: Why can't we give love one more chance?
First of all: She brushes the hair back herself, closing her eyes and pretending her fingertips are his. Great line! Stop-to-reread great.
I will say that I don't always buy "fuck buddies" for Jim/Karen... Like, I think it was a little more emotional for both of them, but it's definitely not a huge stretch. Then again, it could be because Jim Halpert is kind of at saint-status for me most of the time, so who knows? ;) But really, I'm enjoying this. And this was a good fight; there aren't many written. It was passive enough to fit their characters but they're still fixing shit, which I think they were ready to do at the end of "the Job." Great job. Update soon!
Author's Response: Thanks so much! I know the fuck buddies thing can be hard to swallow, especially when Jim is kind of the idealized man. And while I'm not one of the ones who buys that he's only slept with Katy, Karen and Pam, I don't see him being able to pull it off fuck buddies for too long, but yeah, there's a big part of me that thinks the sex came before the romance with him and Karen, probably fueled by alcohol, definitely fueled by frustration, and probably only lasting in that state for a few weeks. Like I've said to others, I don't doubt that he liked her as a person, or that he was attracted (hell, I'd do her), but the sense of romantic intimacy between them lacked a sense of being anything organic. The relationship seemed largely stilted, forced, and that's why I think a lot of it was about trying to be something they weren't. Yes, if they started out as friends with benefits, fuck buddies, whatever, it clearly went to a more committed, emotional state quickly, but I don't think it was as emotional as they pretended it was, or even wanted it to be. The other thing to bear in mind is that he was pretty messed up for most of that season. If there was ever a time Jim was going to do something out of character, it was early Season 3.
I'm glad you found the fight to be in character. I really struggled with how to get them to air some of their pain and conflict. Thanks so much for taking the time to review. It really is so appreciated.
Date: August 12, 2010 06:22 pm Title: I've put in far too many years to let this pass us by
Interesting perspective on his and Karen's relationship, as well as his anger level during fights with Pam. Not something I'd pick up on, given he's pretty passive, but overall really liked the chapter. :)
Author's Response: Thanks so much. My original vision had them really all out fighting, and then it just didn't feel right so I dialed it back to have them each have just a moment or two of losing a bit of control. I always wished we'd have seen their first date and them trying to navigate those early waters, because there had to have been some frustration to work through. I'd really like to see them have a fight. Not some "will they break up" fight, but an actual disagreement.
Date: August 12, 2010 08:46 am Title: I've put in far too many years to let this pass us by
Nice job with them starting to mend what was a year of heartache. I think that is exactly how they would have dealt with things. Can't wait for more.
Author's Response: I'm so glad you think so. Originally, I had a vision of the two of them having a screaming fight leading to storming off and grabbing and forceful kisses of rage and passion. And while that's a good visual, when I sat down to write it, that part just wouldn't happen. It didn't feel like them at all. So if the way the chapter turned out actually did resonate and seem true to character, I'm grateful to know it.
10 [Report This]Date: August 12, 2010 08:26 am Title: I've put in far too many years to let this pass us by
I <3 you, ivy. Perhaps this didn't turn out the way you expected (actually, it wasn't what I expected either), but it was fresh, "off the beaten path," if you will, and that's pretty dang great IMHO. It felt authentic, organic. From Pam's warning shot of “I feel more evolved already,” I thought, "Wow--this is going to be good." I've read "arguments" before, but this one felt real. It was awkward and messy and honest. I feel that by saying that, we get a perfect glimpse into Pam's true feelings, the emotional turbulence of that day of the job interview. That she had the nerve and felt comfortable enough to let it rip is very fancy and new indeed ;)
A lock of hair hangs slightly over one eye. He reaches out to tuck it behind her ear, but pulls his hand back at the last second, uncertain if touching is permitted at the moment. She brushes the hair back herself, closing her eyes and pretending her fingertips are his. Ouch. The glimpses into their future nicely temper the angst. This is my kind of angst, by the way.
I'm in love with the idea of Jim and Karen being fuck buddies when he returned to Scranton. It allows me to wrap my head around his comment that he was "kind of seeing someone." It makes perfect sense to me, especially coupled with the storyline of Diwali--like fitting pieces into a puzzle. Jim's drunken state would have altered his personality enough that he could move things forward a step with Karen without thinking too much about it--feeling instead of thinking. Along those lines, I thought this was great: He thinks he liked Karen better when they were just friends with benefits. And, wow, now he’s really an asshole. Great characterization. The passage after that also beautifully complemented the angst: Even in the darkening sky, he can see clouds moving in, and he searches them for shapes the way he did as a child...“I lied,” she says quietly, and points upward. “A duck on a bicycle.”...
“I know,” he replies, and not in response to her observation of the cloud, which does, indeed, look like a duck on a bicycle. That little exchange gives me hope that they have a chance of making it work. It emphasizes their friendship through all this drama.
Better and better, I tell ya ;)
Author's Response: Oh, Nan, bless you for your thoughtful, thoughtful review. It makes the time spent writing and fighting with the chapters so worthwhile. Re: Jim/Karen, I always felt like they were trying to force their intimacy. Like she wanted to prove to herself that she hadn't just moved to Scranton for a fling, but that they had something real. And he felt like he owed her a shot at something real. It really did remind me of a lot of relationships I've seen where two people start having sex and at a certain point, the choice becomes to either drop it or take it to an emotional level. I think if they'd stayed in Stamford, they'd have slept together off and on for a while, then it would've fizzled out. But yeah, ten to one, they didn't actually have dinner together at a place with cloth napkins before Scranton.
10 [Report This]Date: August 12, 2010 08:02 am Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
the image of pam spitting out the chewed-up olive cracked me up
Author's Response: Thanks! I hate olives. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. It really does mean a lot.
Date: August 11, 2010 09:07 pm Title: I've put in far too many years to let this pass us by
I really love the idea of Jim and Karen starting to sleep together around Diwali. Them being friends with benefits and then more, just seems so what they had.
This chapter (as always) was excellent. I'm loving this story SO much!!!!
Hearing Jim admit to wanting to hurt Pam when he got back, and the reasons why - you did it perfectly!!
Author's Response: Yeah, I always felt a sort of forced intimacy between Jim and Karen, like they were trying to make something real out of something really superficial.
Date: August 07, 2010 07:05 pm Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
Oh my goodness, I love this story so much! Thanks for the update, andtheivy, this was the best chapter yet. Too bad for Pam, though. Olives are wonderful (expect for the yucky black ones from a can. Ew.) And I loved that line, "I just couldn't leave Dwight." he whispers seductively." That was just so Jim and Pam. Lovely chapter and I look forwards to the fourth.
Date: August 05, 2010 03:58 pm Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
The whole not referencing them by name much SO worked, God that was amazing. I love how they were slowly opening up to each other, and the olive part atthe end, great way to wrap that chapter up. Left me smiling and exciting for the next part :)
Author's Response: Haha, smiling and satisfied?
Date: August 05, 2010 10:05 am Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
Nope. Hadn't noticed the preponderance of he and she references. This text in this story is so fluid, I wouldn't change anything.
I really like how you make the distinction between having sex and being a lover. So true.
And I love that you have Pam admit that she wrote the note hoping to change his mind. First story I've seen that in.
Last, loving the slow pace of the story. Both because we'll get more chapters (!) and I like the unrushed feeling that it gives to their date.
I'm at work, so gotta get back to it. Just lovely, ivy.
Author's Response: Thanks, VB! I do think the note was one of those things where Pam could tell herself that it was just a good luck note, so if he didn't come back she wouldn't feel rejected, but deep down, I think it was one last effort. As always, much appreciation for your thoughts!!
Date: August 05, 2010 07:21 am Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
Ok, let's get this little bit of business out of the way first: because of you I have purchased (long overdue), and am currently listening to (on loop), Sophie B. Hawkins ::...I had a dream I was your hero...:: Perfect song--guilty pleasure, a song you want to belt and it will almost always sound like shit, but you'll have fun in the process ::...you're the only shoe that fits...:: There. Anyway, ivy, I am so serious when I say that your writing just keeps getting better. This chapter was perfection. I found your end note interesting--I didn't even notice the lack of names. I was totally absorbed, thoroughly enjoying your skillful writing, the spot-on dialog ::...shucks...for me there is no other...::, the thoughtful gestures, the honest thoughts. You had me laughing and teary (truthfully, I was, btw). I enjoyed the look into Jim's brain--his thoughts on his relationship with Karen, his wanting to be Pam's "lover" (that was just killer), his total adoration. Pam admiting that she cries in the shower and, in this instance, it would be over him? Punch me in the gut, why don't you?! Rambling, I know, but I have a lot in my head (besides Sophie B.) and I hope it's coming across that I really love this ::forever and ever and ever and everrrrrrrrrrrrrr::. I hope you're feeling inspired because I want more, more more...now, now, now.
End note: this review was fueled by a terrific story and a catchy tune...oh, and a morning espresso shot ;)
Date: August 05, 2010 05:31 am Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
Hadn't even noticed the he/she thing. The flow is too perfect for that to jar me. This is so great. I was all misty eyed when Pam asked how did he expect the night to end, and her explanation to him when he asks the same thing- crying in the shower :( so sad but yet I could see her saying that to him. Hoping for more soon!
10 [Report This]Date: August 04, 2010 10:32 pm Title: If I was your girl, believe me, I’d turn on the Rolling Stones
He is hardly a virgin, hasn’t been for more than a decade. He has taken girls and women to bed, has slept with them, had sex, fucked and even vulgarly screwed more than once. But he’s never truly been a lover. He thinks he would like to be her lover.
See, this is how I always saw Jim, especially that scene with Katy in the purse episode, how effortlessly he charmed her--he knows how to get women in bed, but love is a different story, Pam was a different story. I'm glad to see someone else has that feeling, because I've heard so many people assume Jim to have only ever slept with Katy, Karen, and Pam and I think, "Um, no." haha He's just too charming for that!
I love the way you've written Jim in this, really so true to him all throughout this chapter. And Pam's statement about loneliness--I felt that too. I always thought that time in season 3 must've just been awful for her.
Author's Response: Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee that Jim's gotten around.
Thanks so much for such thoughtful feedback. I appreciate it greatly.